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Re: time to be a Consulting Holmes Expert

Posted: Tue 04 Jan, 2022, 3:17 am
by skysailor
Right after saying that, I actually found this one clever, particularly with the added obstacle of having Watson gather the evidence.

The Adventure of the Retired Colourman:
  • With your natural advantages, Watson, every lady is your helper and accomplice.
  • Idk if this really counts by I thought it was fun:
    Burglary has always been an alternative profession, had I [Holmes] cared to adopt it, and I have little doubt that I should have come to the front.

Re: time to be a Consulting Holmes Expert

Posted: Tue 04 Jan, 2022, 1:11 pm
by skysailor
The Adventure of the Veiled Lodger
Mrs Merrilow does not object to tobacco, Watson, if you wish to indulge your filthy habits.
Meaning: (1) Watson smokes tobacco, and (2) Holmes gives him shit about it even though he does, too, lol

Re: time to be a Consulting Holmes Expert

Posted: Tue 04 Jan, 2022, 1:31 pm
by skysailor
And, finally The Adventure of Shoscombe Old Place
  • 'By the way, Watson, you know something of [horse] racing?'
    'I ought to. I pay for it with about half my wound pension.'
  • Watson implies he goes to dog shows?
Omg this story has quotes I want to keep XD
so far down Queer Street that he may never find his way back again.
Well, sir, when a man does one queer thing, or two queer things, there may be a meaning to it, but when everything he does is queer, then you begin to wonder.

Re: time to be a Consulting Holmes Expert

Posted: Mon 24 Jan, 2022, 10:45 pm
by InspectorCaracal
skysailor wrote:
Mon 03 Jan, 2022, 11:25 pm
The Adventure of the Blanched Soldier
Watson is a companion "to whom each development comes as a perpetual surprise, and to whom the future is always a closed book, [and as such] is, indeed, an ideal helpmate" and this is why Holmes "burden[s] [him]self with a companion in [his] various little inquiries"
So I've been sitting on this one for a while because it's an unusual case (and also because it ticks me off lol) but I figure I'll just have to tackle it in an unusual way.

You see, I cannot provide prior evidence of this point, because this contradicts all of the prior evidence. So instead, I'm going to give these two very early examples of prior evidence that directly contradict this idea that Holmes keeps Watson around to stoke his ego.

Holmes values Watson's lack of idle chatter and also values Watson as an attentive listener:
The Man with the Twisted Lip wrote: Holmes drove in silence, with his head sunk upon his breast, and the air of a man who is lost in thought, while I sat beside him, curious to learn what this new quest might be which seemed to tax his powers so sorely, and yet afraid to break in upon the current of his thoughts. We had driven several miles, and were beginning to get to the fringe of the belt of suburban villas, when he shook himself, shrugged his shoulders, and lit up his pipe with the air of a man who has satisfied himself that he is acting for the best.

“You have a grand gift of silence, Watson,” said he. “It makes you quite invaluable as a companion. ’Pon my word, it is a great thing for me to have someone to talk to, for my own thoughts are not over-pleasant."
Watson endeavors to not just admire Holmes' methods from afar but to employ them himself, and Holmes thinks he has promise (which the vast majority of the canon would indicate to be an extremely rare thing):
A Case of Identity wrote: Sherlock Holmes clapped his hands softly together and chuckled.
“’Pon my word, Watson, you are coming along wonderfully. You have really done very well indeed. It is true that you have missed everything of importance, but you have hit upon the method, and you have a quick eye for colour."
Now, you could make the case that Holmes thinks Watson having no powers of predictive analysis doesn't contradict Watson's own keen interest in Holmes' method and learning how to employ it himself, but rather indicates Watson sucks at it. However, you could say that about literally anyone. That wouldn't make Watson special. All of his clients are constantly surprised at his conclusions. Virtually all of the police he works with are constantly surprised at his conclusions. What makes Watson different about this isn't being surprised, it's his interest in Holmes' methods and wanting to learn to do it himself. That's completely an opposite dynamic!!!!

ALSO, Watson respects and admires Holmes and his methods, which means that when Holmes comes to some conclusion he can't follow and won't explain it, Watson has faith in him being right. Sometimes he doesn't even come across as surprised because even though he has nfi what's going on, he trusts Holmes' methods!! (And he also trusts that Holmes will explain it to him when the time is right, showing a great amount of patience, lol)

I have a theory that many of the mischaracterizations in these last several stories are the result of Doyle copying what was becoming the popular conception of Holmes & Watson based on the stage adaptations rather than referencing his own initial creations, because he didn't give a shit. I haven't done the research for it but one point in favor of this is that one of the later stories (The Mazarin Stone, notable for being in 3rd person) is in fact an adaptation from a play script.

Re: time to be a Consulting Holmes Expert

Posted: Mon 24 Jan, 2022, 11:04 pm
by InspectorCaracal
skysailor wrote:
Tue 04 Jan, 2022, 3:17 am
Idk if this really counts by I thought it was fun:
Burglary has always been an alternative profession, had I [Holmes] cared to adopt it, and I have little doubt that I should have come to the front.
There's a solid case for it actually lol

In A Scandal in Bohemia he almost successfully burgles Irene Adler, foiled only because she is as clever and attentive to details as he is. And then again in Charles Augustus Milverton (which is, I admit, post-1900), they go to burgle Milverton's house to retrieve a blackmail letter, but wind up almost getting apprehended as murderers due to one of his (Milverton's) victims showing up and shooting him. So he does canonically have the skills, but not the inclination.

I can't remember how he retrieves the beryl coronet tho

Re: time to be a Consulting Holmes Expert

Posted: Mon 24 Jan, 2022, 11:10 pm
by InspectorCaracal
idly continuing in the Adventures to the Boscombe Valley mystery and YOU SEE

YOU SEE!!
“It is really very good of you to come, Watson,” said he. “It makes a considerable difference to me, having someone with me on whom I can thoroughly rely. Local aid is always either worthless or else biassed. If you will keep the two corner seats I shall get the tickets.”
That's not what you say about someone you keep around because they're oblivious!!

Re: time to be a Consulting Holmes Expert

Posted: Mon 24 Jan, 2022, 11:24 pm
by skysailor
InspectorCaracal wrote:
Mon 24 Jan, 2022, 11:10 pm
idly continuing in the Adventures to the Boscombe Valley mystery and YOU SEE

YOU SEE!!
“It is really very good of you to come, Watson,” said he. “It makes a considerable difference to me, having someone with me on whom I can thoroughly rely. Local aid is always either worthless or else biassed. If you will keep the two corner seats I shall get the tickets.”
That's not what you say about someone you keep around because they're oblivious!!
Disregarding the actual legalities and state of the copyright, I'm now picturing just leaving this particular character development (the crappy late-written one, that is) forever in copyright so it can never be used XD

Re: time to be a Consulting Holmes Expert

Posted: Mon 24 Jan, 2022, 11:32 pm
by InspectorCaracal
“We have got to the deductions and the inferences,” said Lestrade, winking at me. “I find it hard enough to tackle facts, Holmes, without flying away after theories and fancies.”

“You are right,” said Holmes demurely; “you do find it very hard to tackle the facts.”
lolllll

there's not enough appreciation of Holmes & Lestrade's friendship and one-sided rivalry out there tbh

skysailor wrote:
Mon 24 Jan, 2022, 11:24 pm
InspectorCaracal wrote:
Mon 24 Jan, 2022, 11:10 pm
idly continuing in the Adventures to the Boscombe Valley mystery and YOU SEE

YOU SEE!!
“It is really very good of you to come, Watson,” said he. “It makes a considerable difference to me, having someone with me on whom I can thoroughly rely. Local aid is always either worthless or else biassed. If you will keep the two corner seats I shall get the tickets.”
That's not what you say about someone you keep around because they're oblivious!!
Disregarding the actual legalities and state of the copyright, I'm now picturing just leaving this particular character development (the crappy late-written one, that is) forever in copyright so it can never be used XD
oh I learned a great fact last night, that one of the authors who wrote Holmes stuff - the author of "The Seven-Per-Cent Solution" - had his narrative Watson denounce several of those later stories as fakes and also badly written, which I think is hilarious and has gotten me to think I should read that novel, lmfao

Re: time to be a Consulting Holmes Expert

Posted: Sun 20 Mar, 2022, 2:40 pm
by skysailor
Okay, I've got a new one - or rather, Cracked does. Was Watson canonically hot before The Retired Colorman?

https://www.cracked.com/article_33064_s ... d-hot.html

Edit: *scrolls up the thread* *realizes it is one I already found but not one that's been answered*

Re: time to be a Consulting Holmes Expert

Posted: Sun 17 Dec, 2023, 12:39 pm
by skysailor
Wait Arthur Conan Doyle was involved in one of the famous fairy hoaxes???

Quick, someone write fic.