SEAL Book Club

[InspectorCaracal]

Oh, let me start with the poems, then! SFF poetry always stumps me lol

Oh good I'm not the only one lol

The Captain Flies
I'm really torn on this one. I think it's a powerful poem, but I... don't like the implication that one should feel pity for Captain Hook. It's been so long since I've read or watched Peter Pan, I don't remember enough to judge how solid this interpretation of the character is, but I'm leaning towards not. It feels more like a reimagination, kwim?

Hmm. I think I'd agree with that, but I'm not sure?

Usually I kinda hate the "sympathetic reimagining of a villain" things, actually (like ugh, Wicked, and Cruella, and worst of all Maleficent) so you pointing that out has given me something to really think about re: my response to the poem.

I think the line there is... this isn't presented as "Captain Hook isn't so bad actually", at least not any more sympathetic than in the original material, so much as a different perspective of him. It's not telling me I should feel bad because Hook is a disabled man with PTSD - or at least I don't feel like it is - and it's not telling me that any of it justifies his bitterness and hatred. It feels more like it highlights his obsession with vengeance than justifies it.

I actually went and read the plot synopsis of the book on Wikipedia just now to make sure I wasn't missing any details and... I still have no idea what the last verse of the poem is talking about??? Which makes it hard to really get a grasp of the whole poem because it's clearly building up to that point and like, structurally and tonally it feels really good but I don't know what's happening.

I really liked this one, although I don't think I would've appreciated it as much if it hadn't been for the header quote. For one thing, I wouldn't have made the connection to the italicized verses being PT stretches, and I think that connection is somewhat integral to the entire tone of the poem.

Oh, so that's what that was about? I really didn't know what to make of those portions.

Yeah the first time I started it I was confused too, but then I scrolled back to the top to reread to try to figure out what I was missing and caught the quote at the top and went "oooooohhh".

I'm not entirely sure why they're there, what the tonal or narrative purpose or intent of including them was, but I am sure that's what they are.

[thiskurt]

amorous advice for the ocean-oriented
Okay so I actually loved this one? Specially the use of dashes, you can read them as emphatic pauses, but I think they're supposed to bring up multiple images simultaneously?

Yeah, they definitely bring up multiple, sometimes opposing, images simultaneously.

The way I initially read it it seemed to invoke at the same time the seductive image the siren is portraying as well as the reality underneath of monstrous creature.
Especially with stuff like this one:

she will be beautiful / monstrous / material.

But I don't think that fully holds up for all of them.

Ooh, and total tinfoil hat interpretation. In this section:

do not / do not / do not / let her in.

There's a slash between the final 'do not' and the 'let her in' and like, I was wondering if it's telling us not to let her in, but then at the same time a part of it is telling us to let her in. Like the poem itself is struggling not to give in to the alure of the siren.

But I think I'm talking crazy there.

[thiskurt]

On a slightly tangential note: I feel like the unicorn is supposed to be a metaphor for something, but I can't put my finger on what. Did anyone else get this impression?

I feel like I'm missing stuff here too, yeah. Like it emotionally resonates, but I don't know if the unicorn is a metaphor for something specific. Something outside or inside of you that gives you strength? Not sure.

Also 'tumblr fiction', not to be rude because I did like it, but that comparison makes a lot of sense.

I also am ashamed to admit that I didn't get the last verse. I think it's referencing something that happens in the original story, or maybe the sequel, but I'm only passing familiar with the story of Peter Pan. (The original book is, I think, still on my TBR list.) If anyone else knows, I'd appreciate some illumination.

I've been googling for summaries of Peter Pan that can help make sense of it too:

[thiskurt]

I'm not entirely sure why they're there, what the tonal or narrative purpose or intent of including them was, but I am sure that's what they are.

I think we're hearing his thoughts as he's doing these exercises, so there's some kind of parallel between him doing these exercises to deal with the physical pain of his condition, and age, as he's also mentally contemplating and meditating his past.

Like there both forms of therapy for him, physical and mental, and that's what links them?

[InspectorCaracal]

Ooh, and total tinfoil hat interpretation. In this section:

do not / do not / do not / let her in.

There's a slash between the final 'do not' and the 'let her in' and like, I was wondering if it's telling us not to let her in, but then at the same time a part of it is telling us to let her in. Like the poem itself is struggling not to give in to the alure of the siren.

But I think I'm talking crazy there.

Oooooooh! no, I really love that interpretation and I think it has a solid precedent with the structure of rest of the poem, I'm with you on this.

[Bee]

amorous advice for the ocean-oriented
Okay so I actually loved this one? Specially the use of dashes, you can read them as emphatic pauses, but I think they're supposed to bring up multiple images simultaneously?

Yeah, they definitely bring up multiple, sometimes opposing, images simultaneously.

The way I initially read it it seemed to invoke at the same time the seductive image the siren is portraying as well as the reality underneath of monstrous creature.
Especially with stuff like this one:

she will be beautiful / monstrous / material.

But I don't think that fully holds up for all of them.

Ooh, and total tinfoil hat interpretation. In this section:

do not / do not / do not / let her in.

There's a slash between the final 'do not' and the 'let her in' and like, I was wondering if it's telling us not to let her in, but then at the same time a part of it is telling us to let her in. Like the poem itself is struggling not to give in to the alure of the siren.

But I think I'm talking crazy there.

No, I agree, specially in light of the last verse:

i will not be yours, again.

leave me with whatever remains

of life i hold.

is not once

enough?

siren, have

mercy.

[Bee]

I'm not entirely sure why they're there, what the tonal or narrative purpose or intent of including them was, but I am sure that's what they are.

I think we're hearing his thoughts as he's doing these exercises, so there's some kind of parallel between him doing these exercises to deal with the physical pain of his condition, and age, as he's also mentally contemplating and meditating his past.

Like there both forms of therapy for him, physical and mental, and that's what links them?

.../nods slowly

That... that makes a lot of sense!

[thiskurt]

No, I agree, specially in light of the last verse:

i will not be yours, again.

leave me with whatever remains

of life i hold.

is not once

enough?

siren, have

mercy.

Ooh!

I only had this thought some time after reading it and didn't go back to the text, but, yeah, I think that lines up with that idea perfectly.

[Bee]

Oh, let me start with the poems, then! SFF poetry always stumps me lol

Oh good I'm not the only one lol

The Captain Flies
I'm really torn on this one. I think it's a powerful poem, but I... don't like the implication that one should feel pity for Captain Hook. It's been so long since I've read or watched Peter Pan, I don't remember enough to judge how solid this interpretation of the character is, but I'm leaning towards not. It feels more like a reimagination, kwim?

Hmm. I think I'd agree with that, but I'm not sure?

Usually I kinda hate the "sympathetic reimagining of a villain" things, actually (like ugh, Wicked, and Cruella, and worst of all Maleficent) so you pointing that out has given me something to really think about re: my response to the poem.

I think the line there is... this isn't presented as "Captain Hook isn't so bad actually", at least not any more sympathetic than in the original material, so much as a different perspective of him. It's not telling me I should feel bad because Hook is a disabled man with PTSD - or at least I don't feel like it is - and it's not telling me that any of it justifies his bitterness and hatred. It feels more like it highlights his obsession with vengeance than justifies it.

I think the quote at the beginning put me immediately on guard, tbh.

[Bee]

Also, I went to look up the story behind the poem, but the depictions of Nyi Roro Kidul are... not at all what I expected?